Red and green grapes, carrots, artichoke hearts, a handmade pizza loaded with veggies, and two glasses of ice water topped with a thinly sliced lemon lined the dinner table at Jeff Liao’s apartment in San Francisco. In the background, songs by Ruel and Claire Rosinkranz were playing softly. “This is my dinner party with friends playlist,” FEDGE told me. While preparing the pizza for the main course, we quickly discovered we had almost exactly the same music taste. There, the connection bloomed over our favorite musical artists, our love for hosting and sharing meals with friends. For FEDGE, that’s what making music is all about. It’s an anchor of self-reflection, but also a rope to reach a deeper sense of community.
While enjoying a handmade meal together, FEDGE and I caught up, discussing his EP, Through It All, growing up in Taiwan, and why he even decided to write songs in the first place. Let’s dive a little deeper into his story and what he wants readers to take away from his music.
FEDGE’S MUSIC STORY
THP: Where did you study?
FEDGE: Cornell University. I studied hotel administration. Growing up, I was watching The Suite Life of Zack & Cody, and I knew I wanted to be Mr. Mosby.
THP: Icon!
FEDGE: I know, icon! But I did it. I interned in hotels in high school, and now I work in hotels. It was all I ever wanted to do. But now I know there is more to life. I found music! I met Kevin, my guitar teacher, on Hinge. It was very fortuitous in that way. I definitely believe that everything in life happens for a reason. I started songwriting with him, and it helped me heal. Here I am, putting out music a year later.
THP: Are you still working with him?
FEDGE: I am! The EP I co-wrote with him, and the second EP that I’m writing now, is with him and my producer. It’s more fun to write with people, and I feel safe writing with him.
THP: How do you balance your day job with making music?
FEDGE: It’s hard…my brain is always thinking about either work or music. If you want it bad enough, you’ll make time for it. That’s what I do. For songwriting, I can’t just do it anytime, but for the logistical stuff like posting every day and editing TikToks, calling my video guy, coming up with visual concepts…I can do it anytime. But songwriting, that is so sacred. I have to be in that mindset. Songwriting is a muscle. I have to be in the zone, so I do it at home. I usually write over Zoom with Kevin or Griffin, or I just go down to LA and write in person. That’s honestly more fun.
THP: You’re not recording here in your home? You go down to LA?
FEDGE: I mostly record in LA. When I write with Kevin or Griffin, we start with the scratch vocals, and I’ll record the vocals with them in the studio. Then, when it’s in a good place, we bring it to my vocal producer, Nathan, and he will cut my vocals. He will literally tell me how to sing it better! He will coach me on how to sing it better for each song. That is what I was looking for – someone to challenge me to do better.
THP: Do you feel like you’re learning a lot from him?
FEDGE: Yes, he taught me about adding earcandy and “ooo’s and ahhh’s.” That’s what makes a song super polished. I’m an indie artist so I need all the help I can get to get to that record label sound.
THP: I love good ad-libs, and artists that can do the hard stuff behind the scenes are artists that you can pick out from a crowd. Are there any artists that have that ear-candy sound that you really love?
FEDGE: Oh my gosh, well, I feel like Ariana Grande is the queen of ad-libs.
THP: Correct.
FEDGE: I am not on her level! I would love to be! It’s so interesting to hear her sing a record-produced version [of a song] versus a live version. It’s so interesting how she riffs and comes up with stuff on the spot. I want to do that. I study it, and I practice. I want to be like her.
Any fan of music could probably talk about Ariana Grande‘s genius for an extended period of time. So, over bites of arugula salad, that’s what we did. Within our discussion of the true meaning behind ‘we can’t be friends (wait for your love),’ FEDGE confessed to me that writing music was a big part of his process of healing from childhood traumas, and in order to be a successful artist, you just have to be resilient. “My producer was actually the one who told me that if I go on long enough, I will break, and I will make it,” FEDGE shared with me. “You have to be willing to endure the many years of being a nobody and playing to crowds of none. If you love it enough, it’ll happen.” We mutually agreed: real recognizes real, and that success is just around the corner, especially in the era of viral audio.
PERFORMING AT SAN FRANCISCO PRIDE
THP: Tell me about Pride! It looked amazing. I saw you were doing rehearsals with choreography. How was it?
FEDGE: It was really good. It was my first time playing on such a big stage where I actually needed in-ear monitors because I couldn’t hear myself because the stage is so big. Sound travels on a stage that big, so you need in-ear monitors to hear yourself on time. I had to work with a sound guy in LA to run vocal processing. That was the first time doing all that stuff. Big boy stuff. It was really fun! Now I feel a bit more prepared for future shows, and I’ll feel more comfortable going forward. It was my first time doing anything with backup dancers. That was really fun- anything with choreography. It was my movement coach and his friend who choreographed everything. I got the call the day of my debut EP show, so I had a week to put this together.
THP: Do you have dance experience? Did you grow up as a dancer at all?
FEDGE: No, but I was in musical theatre. It was very basic moves. That’s why I have my movement coach. I don’t want to be awkward on stage. All the big stars have coaches, like my friend Avery Cochrane. She was the one who encouraged me to get one too.
THP: Who else was performing at Pride?
FEDGE: Aly & AJ performed on Saturday. I listened to them a lot growing up.
THP: Who else did you listen to growing up that you’ve learned a lot from or find that you still go back to?
FEDGE: I feel like I grew up during the Spotify era, so I was discovering a lot of artists that I had never heard of before. My earliest influences were Disney Channel original shows. Camp Rock and Lemonade Mouth with Bridget Mendler. Hannah Montana too. That was my jam.
THP: So, you’ve always loved it [performing]?
FEDGE: I enjoyed being onstage, but I was very shy and didn’t ever think music could ever be a career for me. I never saw anyone who looked like me on TV singing, so I never thought it was a possibility. It wasn’t until I saw people I sang with in high school succeed that I was like, “Wow, we can do it.” That’s when I started putting out music.
‘DOLORES’ GLOW’ & LIVING AS AN ARTIST IN SAN FRANCISCO
THP: Do you feel like you’ve made other artist friends here in SF?
FEDGE: Living in SF is unique because it’s not like living in LA where there are tons of artists. I think the pop community is small enough where we all have gotten to know each other. It’s been great.
THP: I find that this city is very charming and it changes you in really good ways. It’s very common for people who live here to feel very connected to this city. I was wondering if living here has shaped you and your creative mind?
FEDGE: Wow. I love the thoughtful questions. SF is the first city where I felt like I belonged in America. I always felt so much like an outsider growing up in Taiwan. I felt that way living in New York for college. The gay community there felt very exclusionary. It’s very segregated as well. It wasn’t until I moved here that I felt like there were spaces where I could just be. Here it’s more diverse, and Asians are ingrained in San Francisco history and culture. When I was first living here, I had three white girls as roommates, and they were like “hey, do you want to order dim sum with us?” and I was like “hold up, wait. You guys know what dim sum is?”
THP: Oh my gosh, haha!
FEDGE: I’m so glad we both love SF so much. That’s why I wrote ‘Dolores’ Glow.’ I teased it at Pride. It’s being mixed right now. I wanted to write a song that honored San Francisco and about how much joy I’ve gotten from the city. I wanted to capture those feelings in a song.
THP: For ‘Dolores’ Glow’ – do you have an idea of when you want to put it out or is it still floating in the air?
FEDGE: I have a rough timeline. I’m hoping to put it out in October. I have a couple more songs in the Through It All era I want to put out first. Maybe a soft boy version of a song or more duets. I want to fully flush these songs out, then start the next era. Real talk, it’s a lot of prep work to put out a song, and for this next era, I want to really think through the visuals and the color scheme.
When I was first living here, I had three white girls as roommates, and they were like “hey, do you want to order dim sum with us?” and I was like “hold up, wait. You guys know what dim sum is?”
FEDGE said
MAKING THROUGH IT ALL AND THE NEXT ERA OF MUSIC
THP: Do you find that your visuals guide what you write? Are the visuals equally as important as the lyrics, and how are they working together?
FEDGE: I write first and then find the visuals after. I know some people, like Beyoncé, will have a moodboard of how she wants the music video to look and how she wants to make the listener feel. I’m not like that. I write in my feels first, and then I’ll put together the world. This next era I have some songs about the music industry, relationships, and a more grown-up version of myself. They are bright pop productions – I’m trying to go for that commercial pop sound.
THP: I was wondering if, while making Through It All, was there a song that you were making that stood out at first, but then after putting it out, you felt differently?
FEDGE: Differently? No. The feelings have stayed the same for all the songs. I wouldn’t have put it out if I didn’t feel they were good enough. I actually had songs that I had written that I cut because I didn’t think they were good enough…. The songs on there are the best version of me today.
THP: Were there any songs that, while you were making them, came as a surprise?
FEDGE: ‘Through It All,’ the title track, was very quick to write because it was painful to write about. It’s a scary subject, but when I allowed myself to be open, it just flowed. I knew very early on in the message that I wanted it to be triumphant and hopeful. I didn’t want to write a sad sob story. Yeah, I’ve been through sh*t, but I want people to listen to it and know they can get through it too. I actually have already gotten DMs from people that I do not know who tell me it’s their therapy song.
THP: That’s amazing!
FEDGE: This is why I choose to put out music! Someone out there is going to benefit from the song. It benefited me while I was writing it; now it’s the world’s to take.
This conversation sparked us to bring up vocal powerhouse Sienna Spiro, who had just released her debut album, Visitor, that morning. I shared that when listening to it for the first time, I was captivated by very specific lyrics that also just happened to mirror something I was going through in the same moment. FEDGE agreed that yes, relatable lyrics are at the heart of connecting with people, and feeling seen by a random person is so important.
THP: Let’s say we have someone reading this who has never heard your songs before. Is there one song from the EP that you recommend them to listen to?
FEDGE: ‘Through It All’ is all-encompassing. It takes you through a journey, starting off slow to set the scene, to me waking in fear, not sure if it’ll be a good day. “I’ll know when you slam the door when you go.” That is truly the fear I woke up with every day growing up. It’s about taking back your power, telling your story, and moving past things to have the confidence and belief in yourself to move forward in life and to bet on yourself. It’s a positive message; it’s a positive EP. It’s about healing my inner child. These are songs I wish I had heard when I was a kid.
THP: Do you feel that these songs, top to bottom, tell a story?
FEDGE: I wish I could say yes, but TBH, no! But, somehow they do work sonically together.
THP: They do end up working together; they fit together?
FEDGE: Yes. This is actually an interesting topic. When I was writing this, I was like, “Do these fit? Are they different genres?” ‘Can’t You See’ is more pop rock and ‘Through It All’ is more cinematic, almost musical theatre adjacent. It takes you through a journey. My producer told me, “Don’t focus on that. Just write from your heart.” The biggest thing is actually sticking to one producer for it to sound cohesive. If you write just one genre, it’s going to be so boring for the audience. I remember listening to Sabrina Carpenter’s Short n’ Sweet and thinking, “Wow, each song is so different!” How boring would it be if they were all the same?
It benefited me while I was writing it, now it’s the world’s to take.
FEDGE said
MANDO-POP, HERITAGE, AND CHILDHOOD WOUNDS
THP: You feel like you’re making music that’s more pop-leaning right now. Are there any genres that you’d love to dabble in or thought about trying out for fun?
FEDGE: Yes. I think being in San Francisco, I’ve fallen in love with electronic music. I’m not a producer. I have learned a little, but I only started songwriting two years ago, so I’m still trying to get the hang of it. Because electronic music is so production-forward, you have to be a good producer. I would love to, though. It’s on the horizon. I also love Mando-pop. It’s what I grew up listening to. That’s why I’m putting out a Mando-pop version of Through It All later this month.
THP: How was it being able to sing in Mandarin?
FEDGE: It’s been really gratifying. I grew up speaking Mandarin, and English too, but I couldn’t really tell my own story without dabbling in Mando-pop. It reaches a part of my heritage that I never thought was achievable or that I expected to do. My family encouraged me, and my friends encouraged me too. I posted some Mandarin covers on Instagram, and they told me I actually sounded better singing in Mandarin.
THP: It must be very emotional, I can imagine, to sing in your first language. Let alone singing about topics from your childhood in your first language.
FEDGE: It’s scary. It’s probably the first song that my parents will fully understand, and it’s about my childhood. I hope I don’t get a call from them being like, “what the h*ll?!”. But, as an artist, you have to speak your truth, and it’s so scary to share with the world your childhood wounds. If I felt this way and felt so alone growing up, this song will hopefully help someone out there. That’s why I chose to put it out. It’s worth it.
MUSIC AS A TOOL OF CONNECTIVITY
THP: You’ve said before that you see music as a tool of connectivity. Can you talk a bit more about that?
FEDGE: I struggled with belonging as a kid, so music has really helped me build that bridge with other people. I’ve met amazing people through music and made so many friends through it. I’ve opened up as a person because of it. Music gave me confidence as a kid growing up. I was really shy and introverted. I still am, but when I started doing musical theatre in middle school, that’s when I started blossoming, making friends, and turning up the volume on myself. I really value music in that way. I am very, very grateful. It brings people together, like that person I don’t know who told me my music is their therapy. That is what music is all about; it brings people together. People in my DMs, when I released ‘Invisible to You,’ told me, “Thank you for writing this song.” Being able to be heard by my song is so important. Music heals! It really does!
CLOSING REMARKS
THP: Your stage name is FEDGE. Which you’ve told me is Jeff backwards. I was wondering if you feel like FEDGE and Jeff are sometimes different people?
FEDGE: I think I am growing into FEDGE. He is the more confident version of myself, more upbeat and outgoing and extroverted. When you see someone on stage, you want to have fun with them; you don’t want to be sung to by a quiet person. I really do think music is helping me come out of my shell. If you see me on the streets, I probably have a hoodie on and my big a** headphones on. Head down! But when I’m onstage, I feel part of a community and more excited to be there. In a way it’s very Hannah Montana-esque. There is no blonde wig, but when I’m in that zone I am very different. That was a fun question!
THP: Is there anything else you’d like to promote or say to people who are reading?
FEDGE: Everybody has a purpose, and it took me a long time to find mine, but I truly think music is my purpose. It has helped me heal so much, and I do believe it helps others heal. Give my music a listen, and if you like it, share it with your friends.
I think I am growing into FEDGE.
FEDGE said
What an insightful and relatable conversation we had with FEDGE! You can stream all of FEDGE’s music, including Through It All, here. Let us know on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook if you can relate to any of the lyrics!
Find even more interviews right here, honeybee!
TO LEARN MORE ABOUT FEDGE:
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