When I first met Mark Ambor, he was an upperclassman with a bright smile who somehow lit up even the darkest areas backstage of the school musicals we both worked on. When I meet Mark Ambor again, he’s a rising global superstar dedicated to bringing positivity to passionate fans among his several million followers.
It’s not every day that someone you went to high school with reaches nearly 25 million monthly listeners on Spotify, but I was glad to find out Mark was the one to do it from our small New York hometown. And he has very much embraced his small-town roots: he named his debut album Rockwood, after a nearby state park, mentions various places in Pleasantville on ‘Academy Street,’ and does live streams from his childhood basement, where he started creating music. It’s there where he started pouring himself into his art during the Covid pandemic, shortly after graduating college.
“I really started focusing on trying to make songs that felt more like how I view the world,” Mark tells me over Zoom from that very basement. “I don’t really walk around sad all the time. I really am constantly laughing with my friends, doing whatever random fun stuff we wanna do, and joking around. From that point on, I’ve been working hard to try to create that kind of optimistic, fun world [where] sad stuff ends with a smile. I think that’s why you feel that optimism and that hope.”
Listening to Rockwood for the first time in the dark of my room, I felt exactly what he meant days before even hearing him say it. Mark’s debut album is a triumphant celebration of what makes us human, embracing late-night hangouts with friends, childhood memories, and even the pain of heartbreak. There’s hurt, as there always is while you’re growing up and falling in and out of love, but it’s ultimately overshadowed by hope and, eventually, acceptance.
Mark explains, “I hope I touch on softer subjects and things that hurt a little more, but I’m an optimist, and my mom, growing up, would always tell me, ‘Just see the good in everything because there’s good in everything, even the things you hate. Just focus on that, and you’ll get through those things.’ That’s how I view life and that’s how I view everything about this world. I touch on those subjects in ‘Hate That I Still Love You’ and some of the other songs, the things that bother me, you know? Insecurities, or old memories, or bad memories, and what that is. [There’s still] that nostalgic feeling that yeah, it might be a bad memory, but I’m so nostalgic towards it, and I miss that thing, and that place, and that person.”
When you first press play on Rockwood, Mark immediately welcomes you into some of his favorite memories and one of his favorite places with the album’s mostly instrumental title track. It’s the first of many full-circle moments on the album, including clips of his parents talking to him in home movies and centering around a piano line when he first started writing music on the piano. The song feels like you’re walking into Rockwood Hall State Park right next to Mark himself and sets the tone for a personal, thoughtful record.
Next up is Mark’s sunny hit ‘Good To Be,’ which continues to build an authentic energy as Mark sings about staying true to yourself in a world constantly trying to change us. He enjoys everyday things like listening to music in the car, drinking hot coffee, and celebrating how “it’s so good to be alive.” It’s a reminder to keep your excitement alive for anything that makes your life feel special, no matter how small those things may seem on the surface.
“Something about ‘Good To Be’ always felt like the beginning of a story,” Mark explains. “It was pretty much one of the first songs I wrote for Rockwood that I knew had more to it like there was more of a story there. I just love, like, the first line, ‘Maybe I’m not some chosen one, but damn it, I’m my father’s son.’ I think opening an album like that is like, ‘Okay, we’re in this kid’s life.’”
We step further into that kid’s life on ‘Academy Street,’ which reflects on the seemingly small things that became critical aspects of big memories from a past relationship. It’s a walk through Mark’s hometown while he thinks about spending time around Pleasantville with his ex and notices how much has changed since they were together. It also includes one of the most impactful lyrics of the album: “All the ways that I’ve held on to every single moment, all the promises you’ve broken.” Even the people with the biggest smiles can still bear the weight of shattered hopes and try to find the right balance between healthy nostalgia and living in the past.
“I wonder if the person I wrote ‘Academy Street’ about has heard it. That’s what I’m wondering!” Mark laughs as we discuss our hometown’s impact on Rockwood and his career.
Following the disappointment that lingers on ‘Academy Street,’ the viral ‘Belong Together’ takes a more optimistic approach to different relationships and even draws inspiration from Mark’s parents’ relationship! You could see it as Mark’s idealized, daydream version of the love from ‘Academy Street’ or his hopes for a longer-lasting relationship in the future. He returns to celebrating simple things like “cold iced tea and warmer weather,” returning to himself as he looks forward to making more fulfilling memories.
“I think the fastest one was honestly probably ‘Belong Together,’” Mark says while reminiscing on the creative process behind Rockwood. “It’s like the most annoying thing, I feel like every person that has a song that does well is like, ‘I wrote it in, like, a half hour!’ It’s like everyone says that, but I think I wrote that one in about an hourish, between 30 minutes and an hour. I remember the chorus of that song came immediately though, and I mean, it’s not profound, it just felt good.”
We must cherish the things in life that simply feel good, so ‘Our Way’ is a natural next track. “These days are getting so heavy,” Mark solemnly opens the song, but he closes the first verse with an important question: “Why wait when we could be living?” He puts aside his worries and focuses on enjoying an evening with his friends! Throughout our interview, he happily mentions some of his closest friends and their importance to his personal and artistic growth over the years. It sounds like the kind of social circle everyone dreams of having, and we’re so glad Mark found connections that mean so much to him.
One of the most tender lyrics on ‘Our Way,’ “I miss the summer where I didn’t fear all the thunder,” serves as the perfect interlude to ‘Second Best.’ This beautifully vulnerable song details some of Mark’s relationship insecurities, specifically about his partner’s ex and whether they still have feelings for him. “When you lock the gate, does he climb the fire escape?” he wonders in a lyric he told me is one of his favorites. It’s relatable and captures a universal experience that so many of us have encountered.
“I loved contrasting ‘Our Way’ with ‘Second Best’ because it was this massively gang-vocal thing where it ends, and it crashes to probably one of the softest songs on the whole album,” Mark explains. The sonic and thematic contrasts he plays with throughout the Rockwood album add a raw edge to the story, tying into how young adulthood and first loves have so many twists and turns.
We return to the idea of feeling stifled by memories of your hometown on ‘Hate That I Still Love You,’ which is like an open letter from Mark to his ex as he thinks back to the moments they spent together. “You not here’s so strange, and I hate change,” he admits while aware that he’s already on the path to change. It’s such a real feeling that so many people run into while processing a breakup, and we know this song will be comforting to many fans as they navigate their relationships.
‘Hate That I Still Love You’ is one of the most moving songs in the album’s coming-of-age arc, representing the passage of time on a literal and symbolic level. Mark is slowly picking up the pieces after his breakup and coming to terms with what happened – come on, you know it’s over when you officially tell your mom about it. He opens up about the pain he’s feeling while also starting to accept the situation for what it is, even hoping his ex can start feeling happy again. It’s a shift in the storyline toward the more optimistic mindset he strives for!
Mark further sorts through the relationship wreckage on ‘Bruises & Stains,’ a Coldplay-inspired, anthemic ballad that looks at how we all need to accept our bruises and stains to heal truly. Some of our all-time favorite songs are about how even the people who shine the brightest can be processing a lot of pain – see Taylor Swift’s ‘Dear Reader’ and Post Malone’s ‘Buyer Beware’ – and this song is definitely joining our list of favorites. He admits, “I wish that I could find a way to slow down, help the kid I used to know, maybe find his way back out. All the callous of the world has dragged his soul down.” His discography stands out and will help you on your healing journey.
Now that he’s well along on his healing journey, Mark looks back to the last moments of this relationship and looks forward to his exciting future on ‘I Hope It All Works Out.’ He thinks back to how he was “that hopeful kind of kid” who thought their love would last forever and admits that he would still do nearly anything to be with this person but knows there’s a whole world beyond that feeling. It’s bittersweet when he proclaims, “I’ll be singing to the lights of a crowded sold-out room, close my eyes, and see your face ‘cause these songs are all for you.” He knows it will all work out, but at least some of him wishes it worked out how he imagined it.
This section of the album is a stunning testament to how healing is never quite linear. ‘Someone That’s Better’ starts with a dreamy guitar line that reminds us of Ed Sheeran’s lovestruck ‘Tenerife Sea’ before diving into Mark’s sadness about the idea of his ex finding someone new. He’s beginning to realize that this breakup was probably for the better but admits that he cries until his head hurts and feels haunted “to death” by pictures of this person. It’s a raw perspective that feels like the eerie quiet after a storm and explores one of a breakup’s most difficult yet inevitable parts.
Mark takes us back to Rockwood Park for a moment with ‘Under the Willow,’ another instrumental track that feels like a crucial part of the story. The first instrumental track, ‘Rockwood,’ leads us into the story and the park itself, and it seems like we’re leaving it now, much like how Mark is leaving behind a chapter of his life as he evolves. This time, there are no other voices like the home movie clips. It suggests that he’s ready to take on the world alone.
“‘Under The Willow’ came right before I went on my first headline tour this year,” Mark shares. “I sat at the piano and I was kind of inspired to write this instrumental thing. I started writing it, and I was thinking about Rockwood at that time. I was thinking about, like, ‘It’d be cool if I could write a song that felt kind of like being under that iconic willow tree at Rockwood.’ The one with the etched names and stuff. I sat down, I wrote that, and it felt really good. I played it on tour for people that came, and people were like, ‘You should really include that.’”
The song also offers one of the album’s many full-circle moments – Mark explains, “I ended up recording it on the piano that’s right there [behind me], that I learned how to make music on. It’s the first piano I ever played, and it’s, like, kind of out of tune, but I kind of like that. It’s just so homey, and it’s so real. That’s how ‘Under The Willow’ came, and I’m really happy that the piano I first learned how to play on is on this album.” It’s all worked out, indeed.
Rockwood ends with ‘My Love!,’ an upbeat anthem that sees Mark reaching the acceptance phase of the breakup, coming to terms with the idea that part of him might always love his ex while trying to move forward. The memories of the relationship don’t feel as heavy anymore, with Mark thinking back to trash-talking someone with his ex’s mom. It also feels like the perfect culmination of the lessons he learns throughout the album and one of the key lyrics of the song changes in meaning as you listen.
The album’s closing line, “You’ll always have my heart,” transcends its context of post-heartbreak acceptance and becomes a sweet message to the fans listening to Rockwood. He’s grown so much since this all happened, and now he can tell millions worldwide that they’ll have his heart and gratitude for their support. Mark tells me this placement was intentional to thank his fans for their passion.
“I think my end goal or whatever is to just keep growing in the sense of reaching more people with this positive message and this optimism, too,” he shares. “It’s just this appreciation for the short life we have and enjoying every second, and making memories with the people around us that we love. And, you know, not letting the small things tear us down, or the heartbreak tears us down. I really just feel like we’re here for such a short time, and I wanna make the most of it.”
Make sure you check out Rockwood on your favorite streaming services now, and keep reading for more from our fun Q&A with Mark Ambor!
Hi Mark, congratulations on releasing Rockwood this month! What has it been like to release the album and see how your fans react?
Thank you! It’s been pretty insane. Are you still in Pleasantville? Did you see the mural thing?
Yeah, I went the other day! I noticed it in your post and was like, “That has to be local.”
That’s so funny! Yeah, no one told me that was happening, and then the album dropped, and they made me go there, and I saw it. I thought that was a cool spot they chose because I feel like nothing is ever there, so that was kinda cool. Anyway, yeah! No, it’s been amazing. It just feels really good to put out the rest of the songs I had been writing around the same time as the singles, like ‘Good To Be,’ ‘Belong Together,’ and ‘I Hope It All Works Out.’ I think previous to that, it was just the EP I had and a few singles. I had felt like there was a slight disconnect of, like, mostly depth from ‘Good To Be,’ ‘Belong Together,’ ‘I Hope It All Works Out’ to everything in the past, and it feels good to have a full project that was all written around the same time finally out.
Obviously, it’s really amazing to see the DMs and the comments about how much people are enjoying it and the songs that they’re enjoying the most.
For sure! I feel like there’s a really proper world-build around it, too, where it’s like everything meshes together even though there are the lighter parts like you mentioned and the darker parts like ‘Bruises & Stains.’
Thank you so much. That means a lot to me! I was definitely trying to work really hard on painting the whole picture. I think at the end of the day that just the music will paint the picture for whoever decides to listen to all of it. But thanks, that means a lot!
This album has so many beautiful lyrics, to the point where it’s nearly impossible to pick a single favorite! Are you especially proud of a certain lyric or verse on the album?
I do have a lot! If I had to choose one… man! Okay… I think the “blueberries and butterflies” line in ‘Belong Together’ is probably one of my favorites just because it’s pretty abstract-sounding, but to me, it’s very specific. I don’t know, I like that a lot. That’s also a line that I think people gravitate towards, and I don’t know why, but I love that line!
I also think in ‘Second Best,’ in the second half of the chorus, it says, “When you lock the gate, does he climb the fire escape?” For some reason, I just really like that line! And then there’s this line in ‘My Love!’ where it says, “I hate to say I miss you ’cause that means that I’m not with you; you’re the tears inside these tissues in my room.” I really like that one.
It’s so hard for me to pick one because I feel like they all have different contexts around all of them! They all mean different things to me. It’s hard to just choose one, but yeah!
Which songs on Rockwood took the longest and shortest amounts of time to make?
That’s a good question! The longest was probably ‘My Love!’ because that went through a lot of different versions of writing. The chorus was always the same, but the verses and pre-chorus, I had different. That one took a second to crack.
I think the fastest one was honestly probably ‘Belong Together.’ It’s like the most annoying thing, I feel like every person that has a song that does well is like, “I wrote it in, like, a half hour!” It’s like everyone says that, but I think I wrote that one in about an hourish, between 30 minutes and an hour. I remember the chorus of that song came immediately though, and I mean, it’s not profound; it just felt good. And yeah, I don’t know, I just ran with it. But that was probably the fastest one.
It’s interesting, too, that it’s the most natural [song] that came to you, and that’s the big one that really blew up.
Yeah, it is weird how that works. I don’t know. It’s just like, how do I tap into that headspace all the time?
For sure! You still live in Pleasantville, made the album in your family’s basement, and even mentioned quite a few places in town on ‘Academy Street.’ The first time I saw that song title, I was like, “Wait, I know that place!” Was there also a home movie clip in the background of ‘Rockwood,’ the instrumental song?
Yeah!
Yeah! So, what has it been like to see your music’s impact on fans around the world while still being quite grounded in the place you grew up?
Honestly, I think that’s the part that makes me… I feel like, I process it in a healthy way, to be honest! I surround myself with some of my best friends, like my best friend from Pleasantville, Eric, who I’m still super close with and who’s actually still in Pleasantville. He’s been on tour with me. He’s always around. I feel like he’s seen me from when I was, what, in third grade or whatever. And now he’s still with me. And, you know, my band is filled with a lot of my close friends from around Westchester. I don’t know, I just feel like that helps me remember where I’m from, who I am. It definitely is an experience being in a venue where everyone is just there to support you and screaming your lyrics you write alone and stuff. It definitely can mess with your head and your ego, I think! But it’s really grounding to be surrounded by people who have known me forever, and I’m really grateful for that.
On a similar note, Rockwood has a lot of references to Pleasantville and the memories you’ve made there, with ‘Academy Street’ telling the story of a relationship through different locations. But there can also be a lot of negative feelings tied to staying in your hometown since there are so many ties to old memories, which you kind of touch on in ‘Hate That I Still Love You.’ What has your experience been like grappling with those opposing sides?
That’s a really good question. I think… I mean, I hope that the album comes off with kind of a feeling of optimism, I feel? I hope I touch on softer subjects and things that hurt a little more, but I’m an optimist, and my mom, growing up, would always tell me, “Just see the good in everything because there’s good in everything, even the things you hate. Just focus on that, and you’ll get through those things.” That’s how I view life and that’s how I view everything about this world.
I touch on those subjects in ‘Hate That I Still Love You’ and some of the other songs, the things that bother me, you know? Insecurities, or old memories, or bad memories, and what that is. I hope I have a contrast to some of the outlooks on life that feel a little more positive, upbeat, and good. And that nostalgic feeling that, yeah, it might be a bad memory, but I’m so nostalgic towards it, and I miss that thing, and that place, and that person. So I think that’s how I kind of think about it.
That’s interesting, and then celebrating the good ties like you said, like with your friends working with you from town.
Yeah, exactly! I, like, wonder if the person I wrote ‘Academy Street’ about has heard it. That’s what I’m wondering. [Laughs]
I bet everyone’s like, “Oh, have you heard this song?” And they’re like, “Oh, I haven’t!”
Like, “nah, I’m not listening to that!”
Just blocking it on their For You page whenever you come up!
Literally!
So you said on your Rockwood release night TikTok live that “every ‘Belong Together’ needs its ‘Someone That’s Better.’” Do you think there are other song pairings on the album that speak to each other?
That’s a good question! Let’s see…
I popped into the live and I heard you say that. I was like, “That’s good. I’m gonna write that down!”
[Laughs] I think there was a track… Not that comes to mind off the top of my head, to be honest. I did work really hard to try to have songs that weren’t all the same feel that ‘Belong Together’ or ‘Good To Be’ was. ‘Hate That I Still Love You’ has kind of that upbeat feel, but it’s definitely a sadder subject, and, you know, ‘Academy Street’ has the same idea. Like, a bit of a sadder subject. I’m just proud of the variety of Rockwood, the album, and how we have acoustic songs – ‘Second Best,’ ‘Someone That’s Better’ – and kind of this more alt-rockish thing, Coldplay thing with ‘Bruises & Stains.’ And the same with ‘My Love!’ It’s kind of this indie-pop kind of thing. I don’t know, I love how… I’m just proud of how I feel. I’ve touched on all of these important things that I wanted to talk about: about me, where I’m from, what’s important to me, and all that stuff.
Love that! And you also, with the world-building, like where you’re from… I noticed ‘Rockwood’ the song starts with your parents in the background with the home movie, and then later on, ‘Under The Willow’ is almost a more peaceful one, so it builds on that, but it’s also like as you’ve grown up and ventured on your own. How did the instrumental tracks come about in the process, and how do they contribute to the story in your eyes?
Yeah, I’ve been really excited about the way people have responded to the instrumental tracks. I love that first one [‘Rockwood’]. The reason I made it is I wanted there to be an intro to the album. I didn’t want it to just go into a song. I felt like it was… I feel like Rockwood was worthy of more than just straight into ‘Good To Be!’ In there, you hear, I recorded on my phone, birds chirping in Rockwood [Hall State Park], and you hear me taking steps on whatever gravel is on the path. And those home videos, I searched through my home videos to find the best clips. I wanted that main track to open up the world that people were going to be entering, of this kind of nostalgic, kind of dreamy, kind of memory of a place that’s important or a feeling that’s important.
‘Under The Willow’ came right before I went on my first headline tour this year. For whatever reason, I sat at the piano and I was kind of inspired to write this instrumental thing. I started writing it, and I was thinking about Rockwood at that time, and I was thinking about, like, “It’d be cool if I could write a song that felt kind of like being under that iconic willow tree at Rockwood,” if you know what I’m talking about. The one with the etched names and stuff. I sat down, I wrote that, and it felt really good. I played it on tour for people that came, and people were like, “You should really include that.” I ended up recording it on the piano that’s right there [behind me], that I learned how to make music on. It’s the first piano I ever played and it’s, like, kind of out of tune, but I kind of like that. It’s just so homey, and it’s so real. That’s how ‘Under The Willow’ came, and I’m really happy that the piano I first learned how to play on is on this album.
Yeah, it’s like a lot of full-circle moments on the album, where you start with your parents and everything, and you step into Rockwood, then you’re almost leaving it as you move on from certain things and process them.
Yeah, totally.
The album closes with ‘My Love!,’ which means the last lines of the record are “You’ll always have my heart.” It feels like acceptance, but also like you’re reclaiming what love means as you’ve found new meaning from growing up. It’s like you’re telling your fans they’ll have your heart and gratitude now, which is a cool full-circle moment after channeling your heartbreak into something so powerful – how did you go about forming the tracklist to tell a realized story?
Man, you nailed that. That was my plan. That’s what I hoped people would think when they heard the full album. That was really cool. Like I said, I wanted that [‘Rockwood’] instrumental to lead in, but something about ‘Good To Be’ always felt like the beginning of a story. It was pretty much one of the first songs I wrote for Rockwood that I knew had more to it like there was more of a story there. I just love, like, the first line, “Maybe I’m not some chosen one, but damn it, I’m my father’s son.” I think opening an album like that is like, “Okay, we’re in this kid’s life.” I felt like that always was #1.
I wanted to put a lot of the… I tried to balance it between a lot of my favorite, upbeat things that would capture people in the beginning, as well as the storyline of all of it. I started with ‘Good To Be’ for that reason. I go into ‘Academy Street’ because I love how I touch on Rockwood in ‘Academy Street’ kind of right away, in the bridge. You hear Rockwood’s a place. ‘Belong Together’ was just a feeling/thought that I wanted ‘Belong Together.’ I don’t have a reason for that one; it’s the same with ‘Our Way.’ I wanted to get that upbeat, feel-goodness at the beginning.
I loved contrasting ‘Our Way’ with ‘Second Best’ because it was this massively gang-vocal thing where it ends, and it crashes to probably one of the softest songs on the whole album. And then ‘Second Best’ paired with ‘Hate That I Still Love You’ felt good. And then that into ‘Bruises & Stains’ where it’s more, like, looking inward. Yeah, I don’t know! I guess to answer your question, I spent a lot of time thinking about how songs played into each other and if it made sense to go from, you know, a love song to a song about enjoying the time with your friends. I tried to make it make more sense in terms of contextualizing where I wrote them and the reason for them, if that makes sense.
For sure, I love that! And I feel like there’s a good balance, like you said, where it goes into ‘Our Way’ and fun songs, and then you go to ‘Second Best.’ So it’s like going back and forth between the more negative side and the positive side and trying to find the optimism through it.
Yeah, thanks!
It worked really well, I think. Even with the sadder moments of the album, there’s a lot of hope for the future of Rockwood, and that’s so inspiring! How do you stay optimistic when you’re going through hard times like you’ve written about?
Yeah, I think it all comes back to what I said about the way I grew up. I’ve been lucky enough to have amazing friends in my life, and I am optimistic. I think probably because of my parents and the way they view the world, and what I told you about my mom, to find the good in everything. I also challenged myself a while ago when I first started making music, probably, like, nine years ago or something. I think when you first start writing songs – and I’ve talked to other people about this, too, that write songs, I’m not sure if you write songs – but basically, I feel like the natural thing to do is you write a song that’s sad. Because I guess you’re just tapped into a feeling, and sometimes you focus on the sadder feelings for whatever reason, I don’t know. I feel like that’s what I noticed myself doing in the beginning, and I always admired songs that felt upbeat, fun, and good. But then you have that line of, like, is it cheesy, or is it actually good? [Laughs]
And, I don’t know, I guess from that moment, I really started focusing on trying to make songs that felt more like how I view the world. I don’t really walk around sad all the time. I really am constantly laughing with my friends, doing whatever random fun stuff we wanna do, and joking around. From that point on, I’ve been working hard to try to create that kind of optimistic, fun world that always, like, sad stuff, ends with a smile. I think that’s why you feel that optimism and that hope.
I love that! Even in high school, you just had this positive energy around you, so hearing it on the album I was like, “That makes sense.”
Damn, thanks. Oh, yeah, I forgot you literally know me from high school! [Laughs]
From afar, but yeah! I was worried. I was like… some questions later mention your senior quote, and I was like, “Is he just gonna think I’m some stalker? Is he gonna remember me?”
Oh, no! Oh my gosh!
You’ll be setting off on the Rockwood Tour this fall, which is awesome! Which song from Rockwood are you most excited to perform live?
I’m incredibly excited to play ‘My Love!’ live because it’s, like, a massive song, and I’m hoping people are chanting along with that. It’s a very chant-y chorus, and I’m hoping that it comes off well live. And ‘Bruises & Stains’ live is going to be this whole… it’ll start so soft and end massive. I just think it’s gonna be so fun to play live. So those two I’m very excited for.
I’ve heard a lot of people saying they’re their two favorites, too, so that’ll translate…
Really?
When I was looking at, I think, your announcement post [on album release day], someone said ‘Bruises & Stains’ is their favorite song of all time.
Oh, man! Wow.
I was like, “Oh, wow, that’s a big thing,” so that’ll probably be huge! And I see why, of course.
[Laughs] Thank you, thanks!
Seeing that and seeing the excitement around the world you built, it’s gonna be really cool to see how it translates to a live show.
Yeah, I cannot wait for the live shows!
How do you prepare for the tour now that you’ve been on a few? Now that you’re picking up steam, how do you pick the setlist and such?
Actually, that’s what I’ve been really focusing on currently with my bandmate/music director/friend, Alex. We learned a lot last tour. I mean, I was really proud of the show we put on last tour, but I think there’s always improvement to be done. I think hard about the dynamics of a show and how it feels good to just… I mean, I love intros to shows. It’s one of my favorite parts of any show, just because it’s this hype moment of, like, you’re so excited to see this artist or this band, and they come onstage, and it’s like this huge climax of emotion! And how does the show start, and then how does it sustain throughout? At the end of the day, it’s gotta be entertaining. It’s gotta pull you in; it’s gotta be what you hope when you listen on Spotify or Apple to the song and the album, or whatever. It’s gotta live up to that expectation.
And I feel like… I don’t know; I just work on the dynamics of the show a lot. Like, how long are we keeping it upbeat? When do we dive down a little? When do we bring it back up? Where are there moments that are special to the live show that aren’t on the album? When do I talk? When do I shut up and just play the music? So there’s all those parts that I focus on.
You’ve also done the pop-up shows! I was reading some of your interviews, and you’ve talked about Amsterdam; you started [playing mini shows before the actual concerts]. So, what does it mean for you to get to see fans in person and really see that connection on a face-to-face level?
Yeah, those were so cool! The reason we started doing them was because the first tour sold out, and there were a bunch of people who wanted to come, so our solution was, “I’ll be at the venue this day.” I’d post on my story the day before, the day of, like, “Hey, I’m gonna sing a couple songs acoustic for free outside if you wanna come.” It started in Amsterdam, and then people saw that. Then people came in London and in Vienna, and it was kind of this thing that exponentially grew in each city. That was just so much fun because we were creating such a memory together. It was always, like, kind of chaotic. It was in the middle of the street.
I remember in France specifically, we were in Paris, and it was a small street that this venue was on. I came outside, and there were a bunch of people gathered there already waiting. My camera guy/videographer goes on top of the tour van that’s right on the side of the venue. And there are people honking, trying to get by. There are people crossing the street filming on their phone and they don’t even know what they’re filming, they just hear a bunch of people singing in the street. There’s people walking and there’s people in the buildings to my left and right, there are people opening up their windows, peeking their heads out to see what’s on. So we just created a whole, like, commotion for 10-15 minutes in Paris, and I feel like everyone that was there will for sure remember that. I feel like that was the coolest part for me was getting to 1.) meet people who support the things I make and 2.) create a really cool memory for them.
It’s awesome, too, that you probably so meticulously planned the setlist, the shows, and everything, and then the spontaneous part is one of the biggest memories of it.
Yeah! I feel like that’s always… It’s always just the thing you give the least amount of thought to, and it’s always the thing that stands out. Even when I think about, you know, social content or posting things online, it’s always the video you don’t care about that’s the one that… I think there’s something to that, like your truest form of yourself, truest version of yourself when you aren’t thinking about it too deeply. You go out and just put out whatever into the world, or have a spontaneous pop-up show or whatever. That feels so human—the human thing.
And that goes back to what we were talking about, how ‘Belong Together’ came together so fast. Like you were saying, it’s almost like what’s most natural will resonate with more people.
Yeah! Yeah, totally.
Speaking of shows, kind of, you got to work as a stage manager in your high school musicals – is there anything you learned from being involved in the theatre that you’ve taken with you into your music career or live shows?
Yeah, I guess the funny thing is that whenever I tell people that, I mean, I was backstage the whole time. I’ve always just… I don’t know what about it is that I’ve learned… I’ve always loved Broadway shows, and I’ve always loved the music in Broadway stuff and theater. I’ve always loved how shows come together and every element working together to make the show come to life, whether it’s the crew building the set, the makeup crew making sure the leads look the part, or whatever.
Along with Rockwood as this kind of escape to me growing up, I feel like that entertainment space, that place to just be entertained or build this world with other people, was like another escape for me. It was something that I latched on to and really fell in love with. I feel like it’s inspired a lot of things that I do now, whether I know it or not. I think it might just be a subconscious thing.
I feel like the storytelling and the world-building [of the Rockwood album] kind of tie into how a musical is built. You have the story and this arc, and even if it’s not necessarily a happy ending, you kind of come to terms with the ending. So that, for me, “you’ll always have my heart,” where you think maybe part of you will always be sad over this, but there’s also so much life to live beyond that. So it reminded me of a musical in a way!
Oh, that’s so cool. I love that. Thank you! Yeah, I definitely think there’s something to that.
Speaking of high school again, your senior quote was Dr. Seuss’s: “You can steer yourself any direction you choose.” What directions are you hoping to go in as you keep making music and reaching new people?
I haven’t thought of that in a while; that’s pretty funny. I think that’s actually still kind of how I view the world! [Laughs] I feel like I came out of graduating college in 2020 when the world was shut down, and I kind of loved that because I had no social pressure to go off and… you know, my friends weren’t out having the time of their lives and I was stuck at home. We were all at home, so I took advantage of that, and I started building what felt good to me and making songs. That led to finding a team around me, whether it was a manager, a small record label, or whatever. I feel like I’ve kind of just stayed on that path, and I’ve tried to get better at every part of it, and I feel like that’s what’s led to this moment.
I first fell in love with music listening to bands in, like, the early 2010s. Like Mumford & Sons, I thought was awesome, Vance Joy, The Lumineers. I will forever love Coldplay. Those first five albums are probably, in my opinion, some of the best albums I’ve ever heard. I think the reason I fell in love with that music is that when I’d go see the live shows, when I’d listen alone, when I’d listen with people, it felt like [being] part of something bigger than myself. And it felt like some sort of… I don’t know. It made me feel less alone, I guess. I’ve always aspired to be that for someone else. I think I have kind of tapped into an element of that. I felt it during the last tour, and I’ll continue to try to keep doing that.
I think my end goal, or whatever, is to just keep growing in the sense of reaching more people with this positive message, and this optimism, too, and what I see as this… “wholesome” is not the right word. It’s just this appreciation for the short life we have, enjoying every second, and making memories with the people around us that we love. And, you know, not letting the small things tear us down, or the heartbreak tears us down. I really just feel like we’re here for such a short time, and I wanna make the most of it.
For sure! And a lot of Rockwood, I sensed, is learning that there is something after that. Like ‘I Hope It All Works Out,’ where you hope it all works out, and you’re mentioning the sold-out shows. So it’s like taking the pain but also being like, “Okay, that’s there, but there’s so much beyond that.” That was a big theme I felt.
Yeah. Woah. [Laughs] That’s incredible… yeah, you’re good! Thank you. I totally agree.
Thank you! I was also reading the interview you did where you mentioned a girl in… I think, maybe, Minnesota. There were two cities you mentioned, but she told you that she wouldn’t be here without you. So you’ve really gotten to bring that for other people, like you mentioned with Coldplay, which helps you feel less alone.
Yeah, those were crazy interactions. There was one in Cologne, Germany; there was one in Minneapolis. Just genuine people, genuine fans come up to me and basically being like, “I wouldn’t be here without you.” And there are not really words to respond to that, so you just embrace them and give them a hug. I don’t know. [Smiles] The craziest part of that is that I’m being kind of an idiot in my basement, making songs that feel fun to me. I’m just enjoying that moment, and whether it’s happy or sad, I’m just enjoying it because it’s fun to express myself in that way.
I work on them right in this room, and then they go out into the world, and I think one of the eye-opening things from the tour was when they go out into the world, they take on a new meaning for people. And I’ll never know what any of these songs mean to, you know, that girl in Cologne, or that girl in Minneapolis, or whatever. And that’s a really powerful thought I’ve never, kind of, thought before. When I say it out loud, it’s like, “Yeah, it’s obvious,” but there’s so much gravity to that that I never kind of embraced.
Yeah, like sitting with it, especially in the same room [where you were writing] during lockdowns and everything. It came from this isolated moment that’s… You described your music as being “togetherness,” so to build that from just sitting alone in your basement…
Yeah, it’s really… it’s amazing.
On a similar note, in the spirit of ‘Good To Be,’ what makes you feel excited to be alive?
I’m incredibly grateful for all the people who have discovered the music and come to the shows. I’m so excited for the tour. I’m so excited this album is finally out and excited to work on new music. I’m excited about going, hopefully, to Australia early next year for shows because we haven’t done that yet. And, you know, festivals next summer!
I’m just… I’m trying to not be so focused on the future and stay a little more present in the sense that, like, things that are coming up to get excited about, like not reaching for what I don’t have. Focusing on what is coming that I do have and what will happen. And trying to just process all that the past ten months have been, and let that soak in and feel good about it. It’s hard for me to stay present in it, I’m always like, “What’s next? How do we keep getting more songs out, or you know, go on a different show?” or whatever. I’m really trying to just let it soak in, be proud of what Rockwood is, and embrace it.
Is there anything else you’d like to mention or say to your fans that the questions didn’t touch on?
Honestly, no, that was a really extensive interview! Those were really good questions, thanks. I just hope I see everyone at a show because, at the very least, I promise you’ll have fun. [Laughs]
Thank you so much to Mark for chatting with us and pouring so much of yourself into the Rockwood album! We can’t wait to see what this new chapter brings and hope to see you at a show soon!
Now, honeybees, we have some questions for you! Which track on Rockwood is your favorite? Has a certain lyric really stood out to you? Let us know in the comments below or hit us up on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter!
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